HexOS ā Trying to Make NAS and BYO NAS More User-Friendly
Most people under the age of 60 have a decent level of computer experience ā thatās pretty much a stone-cold fact, thanks to the growing dependence of society on digital devices. Break that down a little further and chances are that most people under the age of 50 use a fairly powerful piece of computer equipment daily, and further still you will probably find that plenty of people in their 40s and younger are āthe IT guyā in their family or social circle. Yet, when it comes to that most nicheāst of the Niche areas of technology āData Storage and Networkingā, the average userās level of experience and know-how massively declines! I have said before on the YouTube channel before, but if people that like āI.Tā are the ones who got bullied at school ā the ones who like ānetworking and storageā were the ones the bullied BULLIED! Sure, you know how to set up an Amazon FireTV, plug in a printer and even install windows ā but can you open up ports on a router, configure a firewall, or arrange the right cache and redundancy on your server???
Itās a really complex area of the tech industry and although so, SO many other areas of the tech software (and hardware) experience have been blissfully simplified and streamlined, network attached storage (NAS) is an area that is still yet to see the same level of āidiot proofingā. To date, the NAS software industry has a lot of āpotentialā NAS OSā to choose from in your server, but the bulk of them are either hardware-locked (Synology DSM, QNAP QTS/QuTS, etc), have a steep learning curve (TrueNAS) or straddle somewhere between easier than the latter, but still harder than the former (UnRAID, CasaOS, OMV). Now THIS is where HexOS comes in ā created by two former UnRAID/Lime Technology staffers (Jonathan Panozzo and Eric Schultz, under the new company Eshtek Inc.), this has been a NAS software that has been discussed over on LTT and Reddit for the better part of a year, and we have bee following here on our video and megathread on NASCompares HERE.
In brief, it is reported to be a truly user-friendly and beginner-friendly alternative to the existing range of NAS software OS and appliances currently offered to NAS users who want to repurpose old unused tech as a server, or want to build their own from the ground up. With a beta version proposed for later in 2024 and details about the software being gradually dropped, letās discuss what HexOS is, why the buzz, what we know, what we donāt and (hopefully) help you decide whether itās worth holding out for this software for your long term simplified storage needs.
Why is there such a buzz about HexOS?
Although the desire for a very user-friendly alternative to the existing range of NAS software in the market has always been very high (and we will dig into that more later on), it has be be highlighted that they are NOT the first company to try and challenge the current range of NAS appliances on the market. There are already largely open source offerings from brands such as IceWhale with their CasaOS/ZimaOS software, then you have OpenMediaVault which scales things up somewhat, then you have the current industry-recommended but paid āeasy modeā UnRAID. In short ā it could be argued that HexOS is not the first to try this? So why the buzz? Well, many would point at the sizable investment of $250,000 made by a huge industry personality Linus, of LinusTechTips. In isolation, not an enormous figure in the running costs and salaries of multiple Devs on an annual paycheck, and almost certainly multiple equity/loan sums have been made by investors outside of this, but nonetheless this made waves. Linusā has been one of many voices in the creative sphere that has commented on the high learning curve that is baked into the bulk of existing NAS software offerings right now ā leading to (at best) inconvenient ongoing support of novice users over time, and (at worst) users setting their primary storage backup system in a poor way that is inefficient, riddled in attack vectors and is unfit for purpose. It is worth making clear that this is NOT a LTT/Linus-owned or developed NAS software platform, he is serving as an angel investor (and almost certainly in an additional advisory capacity). From there things have slowly snowballs, as small pieces of information about the software, rumours about the state of the development, the shape it will take and the building blocks fo the platform have emerged. Alot of software (not just NAS software of course) will launch and then have to fight the constant balance of stability vs customization vs security vs support ā and more often than not, these can be what kills a platform in the first 18 months. Factor in that this is a platform that is intended to be feature-rich (1 click apps, ZFS base, VMs and Container ready, performance targetted. etc) AND user-friendly, this is a big, big wall to climb! So, letās discuss what we know about HexOS so far.
What do we know about HexOS So Far?
HexOS was informally (kind of) revealed on the LTT WAN Show on June 15th 2024 and alongside production screenshots (unconfirmed to what level these were in-development software screenshots or created-vector images), they discussed some features, structure and project goals ā whilst also making it clear that details surrounding funding, support and more are still very much āin progressā and āTBCā. Below is everything we leant from that video, combined with everything we know about the software from details uncovered in development over the year:
- HexOS will be running on/on-top of TrueNAS Scale (the Linux version of TrueNAS), labelled āPowered by TrueNAS Scaleā, Still awaiting confirmation as to whether this is a simplified TrueNAS splinter/branch or something more involved
- The Software is designed to be focused on being as user-friendly as possible and designed for x86 systems, not locked to hardware
- Despite user-friendly focus, promises performance and stability
- Includes storage recommendations, which can be actioned or ignored
- Applications are 1-click installs, awaiting confirmation is these are pre-made containerized)
- Remote Access to your home server, i.e āRemote Access from Anywhereā in the primary reveal
- A Beta of the HexOS NAS software targetted for Q3 2024 (July-Sept)
- Will feature Container and Virtual Machine Support (judging from the initial images) and mentions āWizard Driven virtual desktops ā details TBC)
- Discussion of 3rd party cloud synchronization, but primarily designed for local access
Thatās really it. As mentioned, on an earlier video back in April 2023, we summarized all the information that had been floating around about this software, which included in the references made on the WAN show, forum posts and references to Jon and Eric from the UnRAID community. You can watch that video HERE.
What we DO NOT Know about HexOS Right Now?
Realistically, we know very little about HexOS and that is kind of unusual for software that is reported to arrive as a Beta within the next 3.5 months. No doubt, we will be seeing deep dives into this software on the official LTT/LMG-partnered outlets soon enough. But right now, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered. With numerous understandable sceptical users online thinking of this software as āDiet TrueNASā or TrueNAS Scale Zeroā, but then again ā would that be such a bad thing if it was? TrueNAS has been somewhat forced in recent years to make itself easier to work with (both from an end user and development stance), which was one of the core reasons for TrueNAS Scaleās development! But HexOS is not the only NAS Software in the market that is making promises of a simplified user experience for you and your data ā so what about the things we still want to know? Here are just a few:
- No formal discussion yet regarding security and encryption, remote access services being 1st party/3rd party (Tailscale, etc)
- Hardware Specifications (minimum or recommended). To fully use the feature set of TrueNAS, 8-16GB tends to be the entry (as that becomes the ādedupā and L cache minimum with powerful systems
- Storage immutability? WORM Support etc
- No confirmation at this time if HexOS runs on a dedicated OS-SSD internally, within the storage array (i.e as found on Synology DSM and QNAP QTS/QuTS, via an eMMC bootloader), or whether it will be injected into memory, as observed in UnRAID
- No details regarding the price and support model. Current h-w free NAS OS in the market tend to be either completely free (but with paid/community support) like TrueNAS, monthly/annual/lifetime subscription (but with a 30 day trial) like UnRAID, or completely free with some components behind a paywall.
- Much like above, support is yet to be confirmed ā no word on whether HexOS will āStaff Upā at launch or rely heavily on community support.
- The extent to how much of the ZFS feature set will be rolled into the backend/foreground control of HexOS (snapshots, intelligent cache, jail separation on the apps, etc)
- No confirmation on how permission/Access Control will be managed, especially during 3rd party App installation (Plex, Home automation control, surveillance, etc) ā this is a massive hurdle for many NAS software to balance storage access and ideal restrictions in a user-friendly fashion
- No word on whether it will use fixed-folder indexing (i.e generally simplified and more resource-economical NAS software tends to fix the directories of particular media to optimize performance, photos in a /photo directory, etc) and how this will be actioned when installing further applications and easy use UAC
And these are just scratching the surface!
What Are the Challenges that HexOS for NAS will face?
Trying to manage the balancing act of providing a fully featured private server software that can run on any custom x86 hardware configuration, making it highly secure AND keeping it easy to use.. wellā¦ MANY have tried. There have been varying levels of success before now. Such as:
Synology DSM and QNAP QuTS/QTS ā Highly featured, Client tool rich and easy GUI NAS Software platforms. However, BOTH (along with Terramaster TOS and Asustor ADM) are locked to the hardware from their respective brands are not available for individual purchase.
UnRAID ā Still by a good margin, the most user-friendly and capable NAS software in the market ā but still has hurdles for the newbie and less tech-interested (storage manager ā party disk selection, cache disk in/out of a UnRAID pool or newly supported ZFS pool)
Laticeworks / Amber Cloud ā very user-friendly, structured to be comparable to 3rd party cloud ease-of-us, but as a network drive (with remote access). It has continued to see regular updates since itās first reveal back in 2020, and even incorporates router management too. However, much like Synology/QNAP etc, is hardware locked
ZimaOS / Casa OS ā Simple, TECHNICALLY not hardware locked, but not feature-rich yet (they only JUST added RAID in Jan) and the bulk of the features are via 3rd party containerized apps
WD NAS OS ā The dumpster fire that is WD NAS OS ā Started very well in the late 2000ās and 2010, starting easy with cloud setup, but ended up reaching a point in its UI that was too complex for the movies and too limited for the networking veterans ā the GUI by WD OS 6 was tough to read and unintuitive as all hell! Indeed, that simplicity and automated cloud-relay access authentication by default (with SMB and ālocalā accessible off by default) ended up being the reason that literally thousands of users could not access their systems when Western Digital corporate-level systems were compromised and isolation actions were needed (see video below):
The above are just a few examples. Add Open Media Vault (OMV), Proxmox if you want to focus on VMs, and more ā and slowly you see that there is not actually a complete ānovice levelā NAS software in the market. Now, the CLOSEST I have seen in 2024 is Synology and their BeeStation/BSM series, which takes ALOT of the fundamentals of DSM (BTRFS support, File/Folder browser access, multi-tier backups, SMB protocol, snapshots, very user-friendly client applications, etc) and then repackages them into a genuinely 5-click single screen NAS setup ā with everything presented in a remarkably user-friendly fashion (see video below of Synology DSM vs Synology BSM). The issue? Well aside from it STILL being hardware locked, it lacks ALL of the premium prosumer/business tools for containers, VMs, OS level backups, powerful multimedia streaming playback, etc)
Likewise, there is the newly revealed Synology Active Protect platform ā with its huge emphasis on Business backups, immutability, cloud VM-to-bare-metal deployment failover, significant versioning protocols, multisite deduplication and 10-minute deployment! But again, hardware locked, but also after 1 year, has subscription model costs to factor in. Learn more below:
Ultimately, it is still very much āearly daysā for this NAS software and although it looks like the structure is sorted and presumably the logic in the backend has been laid out, as I cannot imagine a $250,000 investment being made on a blueprint on a napkin, nor can I imagine TrueNAS (the organization) allowing their OS being commercially forked in this fashion without heavy proof of concept and execution. There is also the question of how two ex UnRAID / Lime Technology team members end up splintering off into a TrueNAS-powered NAS OS that likely draws comparison at best and competition at worse with their former employers. I think we can all agree that the NAS industry is long overdue and open for the truly and completely tech-knowledge-free solution that has existed in DAS (Direct Attached Storage) for decades and is profited by on cloud platforms such as Google Drive, Dropbox, etc. I am looking forward to seeing how this all plays out, how much of this promised utopia of simplicity can be maintained and how other players in the market respond to this. Whether we are looking at āTrueNAS Liteā and it fills that void, or it ends up initiating the existing NAS OS status quo to spare a thought for the āhassle-freeā UX, it is going to be fun to watch play out!
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as a noob the most crucial thing for me is the mobile apps. It is one thing to set up the Synology NAS, install Plex, download station, photo station, etc etc, but the mobile apps allowing you to do so much from your mobile are great. I’ve often been thinking that I should just build my own, but then so many of them don’t have the mobile apps you get from Synology. Or maybe they do and I just have no idea.
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That UI is equally as bad as TrueNAS. How hard is it to just look at Synology, UmbrelOS, etc. Even Terra-Master nailed it.
It’s one thing if it’s an unfunded project – but if they are a funded company with the goal of making a good UI, they failed.
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I would love to turn old windows pc that are DDR3 to DDR4 ram supported PC turn them into a nas to reduce e waste.
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Since unraid launched an abusive pay system I’ve been searching an alternative. Hope this gets traction.
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Thanks so much for this video. I’m looking at buying a new NAS to replace my 10+ years old Microserver Gen8 running DSM through Xpenology that has been dead reliable that entire time, but I was holding out until more information became available about this OS so thanks for this initial look at it.
I get what they’re trying to do with HexOS and I think a younger version of me would’ve been all over this, but I think given my experience with DSM and my need for something hands-off, I’ll probably stick with what I know. Great that there’s more competition in this field though. Especially with these Ugreen devices for example coming on the market recently, where long term reliability and support is still an unknown.
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I think the Hex OS needs to be preconfigured and provide detailed settings, give options to fix, have secure and ready to go settings, with guide in menues for advanced folder permisions, and users, configure custom secure remote access priveleges, and focus on reliability. Truenas is awkward with connecting shares with users and permisions, and lacks native secure remote access and auto backups. I mean something like Synology OS for custom hardware is an unleashed NAS software i imagine users like me would appriciate.
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Great stuff
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Can you make a quick video with NAS suggestions for newcomers? I am looking at starting a home system for file storage and some Plex, and I am wondering if it’s a good time to go to Synology, or if I should wait a little longer to see what Ugreen does.
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opened, started watching, mispronounced Schultz and beta and immediately leaving this vid.
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I am saving to deploy something big, EOY, I’m planning a hybrid thing not just SSD and HDD pools. Before I might have considered it, but I have worked it all out on trunas, been pretty happy on a smaller scale Lab. Also this is new software, built on ture nas I guess, I’m sure this will be pretty solid or whatever, but let someone else canary it.
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If this is TrueNasScale with Docker instead of Kubernetes i’m down to try.
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OMV with casa os is a good alternative. There’s also Zima os which is still in development. All are good options
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wonder how fun it will be to migrate away once it reaches dead-end development… or only later becomes a paid only addon…
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Problem is, Linus and his team are all sacks of s. How quickly people forget. I can’t imagine any scenario where they deserve our support. Novice users can use whatever’s built into their retail NAS, and advanced users can just use TrueNAS, UnRAID, Proxmox, etc. After watching their fake (monetized) apology video tour, I swore them off forever. Plus all the stuff coming to light about his commentary on ‘science’ just is not appropriate for a tech review channel.
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Ditto
Tile based skin, gotcha. Pass!
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Oh man the Plex install was what really got me when I was trying to setup my own Debian based home server. As a Windows person, im trying to move everything away from Server 2019 and the damn file permissions on Linux are NUTS… Thanks for answering my question though since its been burning a hole in my brain for months. I figured it was a file permissions issue but, again, using Debian, its not that simple either. Im going with ProxMox and TrueNAS Scale for my main OS running the machines since they seem to be the best for what I need to do. It was “fun” trying to config my own setup but also a hair pulling experience. Cheers!
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I love truenas scale, the only thing i find confusing is the permissions.
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Will it check for a confirmation code that we purchased a screwdriver from LTT? Lol jkā¦ but curious where Louis Rossmann falls on these NAS OS.
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People keep talking about ZimaOS as it’s something special but it’s just CasaOS with a new name and CasaOS started life back in sep 26 2021 progress on ZimaOS is slow.
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Iām just not convinced that there are a lot of people outside who are willing and capable to build their own NAS but than use a very restricted OS because they are not techsavy enough.
In my view they just buy a synology or qnap
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LTT is involved? Aight ima head out.
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Honestly I’ve switched to omv after years of setting stuff up. I just needed something stupid simple… Im actually also installing cosmos cloud on top of it. I have to assume this is very similar to that. I just don’t see the benefit for me atm.
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All these linux projects with the dumb “OS” tags in them. Screams amateur to me. This project is more like “True as with HexUI”
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my question is since its based off scale is it going to be useing docker for apps or K3’s cuz scale is ditching K3’s for docker
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Interesting project. I tried TrueNAS and loved everything about it, except the user management. It was just baffling to me. I ended up using OMV instead.
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It’s the same as Symantec Beestation – making NAS for the masses. Any average user who wants a simple NAS system with all of the Geeky settings hidden from sight is completely put off by channels like this !!! Listen to how you are trying to complicate and find potential issues in everything Hex is clearly trying to simplify and it hasn’t even been released yet ! Synology and others have deliberately made NAS systems a geek fest so it serves them right that they have left a gaping hole in the market for other disruptors to take advantage of.
By the way there is one negative – I can’t stand Linus.
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If LTT’s/Linus’s name is anywhere near it, I’m staying far, far away.
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Eric SHLUTZ??? I think you mean Eric Schultz mate! lol
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No mention of OMV as an alternative to truenas scale and unraid. An up-to-date comparison of the features and limitations of these might be warranted now.
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I think the problems with NAS software is it is trying to do way too much often …. if it sticks to Network attached storage it all works much better.
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You could simplify truenas with use-cases and some user-friendly autodetection.
e.g. “Is this for streaming movies for home?” vs “Is this for editing video?” That makes a difference between selecting HDD and SSD drives. Backup hosts… “How much data is being backed up?” and “how fast is the network?” might change your drive layout from performance to capacity focused. It could make suggestions, “you’ll need 3 drives of size X to migrate the data on your current array.”
For VMs, “I automatically enabled PCI pass-through in the kernel” would be nice. Then, “I did some driver detection on your PCIE devices… would you like this graphics card/NIC/blueray writer passed through to the VM?”. Maybe some network scanning… “I found a TV but no media server, would you like one?” “I found some ubiquiti network kit, would you like me to install the manager and walk you through the install?”
Or to address some of truenas scale’s deficiencies… “click here to select a user which will always be used to run this kubernetes application, even if it updates.”
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TrueNAS has already a decent UI for its backend. Maybe it is not too easy but it is not too hard either.
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Interesting. Iām gonna check this out. Iām a big fan of Unraid. My adoption hinges on docker and VM support. IMO a major strength of Unraid is its implementation of virtualization
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Some aspects of truenas are abominably awful. Potentially this may be a fantastic option. Especially if it works like gl.inetās GUI works on top of openwrt in the router world (with the option of going into the full openwrt GUI for advanced features).
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I do want to hear more about this. Maybe it is what I need.
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An OS that needs user knowledge. That fits Linus to a T.
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I would rather have Windows 11 as a daily driver than have anything to do with LTT or the hot pile of garbage that is the user interface and permissions/user setup of Truenas.
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what kind of person will have the knowledge to build a hardware NAS but be so stupid to need a 0 level OS??? yes there are people that cant put gas in their car, but they didnt build the car to start with.
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I was looking forward to this but with truenas moving to docker compose this year I don’t feel the need to switch
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LI = wankers facebook LMAO. So true. Does anyone give a %^@#%^ about someone ‘sharing their thoughts’ on LI ??
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Now bring it beautiful compact case as Synology ds620slim
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Will the OS harrass me and gaslight me? If not, no buy.
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It’s funny how a UI can suddenly be a whole new OS? We don’t talk about Gnome OS or KDE OS when we are talking about which DE we are running. Call it HexUI or something.
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As with many things I always have to ask, āWho is this even for?ā
Seriously. If weāre talking about an āaccessibleā and āsimplifiedā NAS and then throwing a UI on top of something like TrueNAS, then throwing in features like VMs and containerized Apps into the mix then youāve already lost your target audience in favor of the competition. Itās already trying trying to do too many things at once, outside of basic NAS functionality.
Then you have in the screenshots and specs of this utterly ridiculous example environment in their marketing. An AMD R7 7700X with 32GB of RAM and a frigginā RTX 4070 ti 12GB and 10GBe NIC? WTAF?!? Exactly what āenthusiastā is running this kind of setup on a dedicated box and then looking for streamlined āsimplicityā and āaccessibilityā in their NAS environment? If youāve committed to that kind of setup, youāre already committed to and looking for the kind of complexity, scalability, and feature rich environment of actual TrueNAS Scale or UnRAID.
Also for that kind of money, youāre waaaay into upper tier Synology territory. The price of Ryzen and RTX alone would already bag you a 12 Bay Synology DX1215II. Trow in a chassis, mobo, the 32GB RAM and NIC and youāre most of the way into some serious storage territory too.
Again. Who is this for? Someone with the money and tech knowledge to build a dedicated custom gaming level rig, yet canāt figure out UnRAID, TrueNAS, OMV, Ubuntu Server, or a host of other similar new and old solutions (already saturating the market) over a weekend? Iām just not seeing it.
Look, I love the idea of competition, innovation, and choice, but this seems more like solution in search of an audience, rather a solution to an actual problem or gap in the market.
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Ummm … I think its Eric Shultz, not Shluts.
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can’t wait to test it
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If it’s backed by LTT, no thanks.
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If it is not Debianbased, there is no reason to take it seriously, Truenas is not worth the time and so the money…
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Lol! Hadn’t heard W4nkers Facebook before, but it’s nice to hear I’m not alone in not liking it. ????
In my opinion it really looks like photoshopped images since the image where the ethernet jacks was shown said 10Gbit on one and 2,5Gbit on the other, but it still said 8.5 Mbit/s on both. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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As former truenas and currently Unraid user I can only say that I am not looking any further for other nas os. Unraid simply has it all with easy to set up manner
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So HexOS is a wrapper around TrueNAS and TrueNAS is a monitoring wrapper around Netdata, which again HexOS pulls the metrics from.
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I lost all interest when I saw that HexOS is based on TrueNAS.
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I came here just to downvote, from the title alone.
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As result of this association with LTT, I have created and sent a circular to all of our associates to not purchase this product and that we will not be doing business with anyone that does not choose to comply.
I will NOT allow LTT in my companies nor associates. Ever. LTT is a terrible company for which one of high moral stance must take a stand.
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I realize funding is important and needed here, but doesn’t this being LTT-backed erode perception of a quality OS (based on LTT history)? Is this just a skin, kinda like buying a screwdriver and slapping your logo on it. I’d be very cautious about trusting critical data here until long term support is proven. Maybe viable in 2029 or so.
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When is this out?
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Honestly not a bad idea for those who want what TrueNas offers but don’t need the whole kit. I’ll stick with Truenas personally but I can see this as a viable option instead of unraid for some depending on price.
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I think the hardest part of truejas scale is just the steep beginning lvl learning curve, it plateau very quickly the that first spike is really scary. Also people really arenāt a fan of only being able to expand pool in chunks. At my work it baffled people that u couldnāt just add a drive so I had to explain to them how raid worked
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I think the hardest part of truejas scale is just the steep beginning lvl learning curve, it plateau very quickly the that first spike is really scary. Also people really arenāt a fan of only being able to expand pool in chunks. At my work it baffled people what. Could just add a drive
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So… All this time for a truenas setup wizard?
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Meeh
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Anything backed by ltt automatically makes me pause and reconsider if itās really a good product. Since itās been shown that lttās attention to detail is lacking due to deadlines that are way too short, and it would seem to leak into all their investments.
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How is calling LinkedIn “Wankers Facebook” relevant to anything? Makes you sound like a complete tosser.
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So it’s a custom GUI that hides all the advanced features and stuff that a novice user wouldn’t normally need to use and adds in some scripting and wizards to make setup easy? I dig the idea. Especially setting up the remote backup stuff. Rolling your own remote backup setup isn’t the hardest thing in the world but definitely outside the normal reach of a large percentage of the normal PC user space so automating that process could be a very popular option!
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I would potentially be the part of the target audience, but Iām happy with Unraid as a newbie user and Docker support is important for me.
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Seems like a simplified skin
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LTT backed?? Best avoid that dumpsterfire
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Most snobbish and elitist comment section I’ve seen!
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You lost me at “Linus/LTT”.
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What I want is file permissions that work properly and it simple. TrueNAS sucks for users and permissions.
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I used to like Truenas Scale until they removed docker. Unless you run it in a vm, which defeats the purpose. k3s is huge hassle for little gains for home lab. I hope HexOS doesn’t go down that path, but I have a feeling they will have to unless they are continuing development completely separate. I do like their goal though. Most OS’s are gibberish to people and don’t need to be.
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I have had many challenging experiences with ZFS (SSD) (instability/corruption/performance lower than expected). It would be beneficial to support MDADM with BTRFS on top.
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Not enough info. Also never be the beta. I will wait. Also how much will it cost? True nas is not free and licening it sounds pretty expensive. Do i have to pay for truenas then hex skin? I hope its not a subscription.
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Is the software as corrupt as LTT’s personality? I wouldn’t run it if it were the only NAS OS on the planet.
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Still look promising than ugreen nas OS ????
If it is a fancy skin/theme for truenas
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I went from WD ex2 ultra two bay to a ProLiant MicroServer Gen8 running Truenas scale so I have an SSD for OS and four H/Drive in raid 5 and all good.
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Looks like it’s just an overlay for TrueNAS that just sets specific switches for TrueNAS automatically. Basically preset templates. Until it’s on my test server, that’s all I can make of it.
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fraud
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so it sound like a skin over truenas
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As a TrueNAS Scale user, which really is not hard to learn. I really donāt see the value in a second hand version of Scale.
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Linus talked about that Backups are too hard for novice users and he wants to build a system where you can easily make backups to frieds/family outside of your network and having that secured so your friends cannot access your backups (and of course they can backup to your nas).
That would be the killer feature for me .. backups, especially external, are quite hard to plan and most don’t talk about that.
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Looks promising! Would be very welcome in this arena, I do believe.
A user-friendly “shell” that would benefit DIY and home-users would significantly help those adapting and “rolling their own”, building their homelabs.
Watchout Synology, here they come! (evil grin)
I myself would be interested (somewhat) repurposing my older (QNAP) hardware, if that is a possibility in their arena…
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We have several 12-bay racks units for O365 backups. Synology gimps themselves with “enterprise” business decisions soft-locking units to their disks which in enterprise terms is a common practise. However even filling up half a 12-bay with high capacity HDDs you hit a brick wall by not having bigger NVME drives for metadata and caching. These drives are at best prosumer quality with sub-par write endurance for the price. We had to swap the SSDs to higher capacity Samsung drives with real enterprise performance and use the db unlock script to get rid of the alarms.
The DP segment makes sense but the hardware has to catch up to be a credible option.
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Can I have a P please Bob?
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You are back already …. Should have waited 2 mins ????
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I’m sure Synology is aware of people waiting for updates of the 15xx, 16xx and 18xx models. Why not give them any insight about their plans or even a heads up on when new models can be exepected without further details. I can only think of one reason, but I really hope I’m wrong.
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3:49: Either its a typo (which should have been fixed) or we now have “RIAD”?
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Who cares about enterprise level stuff …. they are ignoring their core products and user base at a time when competition is getting fiercer. The only they have going for themselves is DSM ….
All this for nothing because they won’t be able to effectively compete in the enterprise space because that business is all about relationships with customers and on a enterprise level …well they don’t have any.
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So… They’re targeting businesses who don’t want to pay for IT expertise, with expensive rack mount hardware.
Ok then…
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expesnive stuff not for us :=(
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Yes, need a desktop model.**
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Any legal guarantees?
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This stuff works for me to replace expensive backup solutions. DIY folk seem to miss out on getting used higher end equipment cheap
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Good thing you started working with so many other brands. The 4 comments so far pretty much sums it up how many people care about enterprise stuff on YouTube. At least another 10-15 years before enterprise decision makers are coming to YouTube for research. Mostly boomers in those positions right now and they aren’t watching YouTube to buy equipment for their large business.
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Might be an interest for some business users, but in my experiences, such customer might want more flexibility and customisation then this solution can perhaps offer.
And, again in my experiences, such customer do know their stuff, they don’t need Synology to take away or circumvent those expertises.
I do expect a few challenges; What when one of those platforms changes, major changes are made, this product likely will need an update/chance? (too)
What about malware, where the initial backup is clean and you are backing-up an infected source? Any measures taken to check upon the source not being infected?
Protection is not (only) backing-up IMHO.
I get the impression they have put on a business-sauce onto an existing solution. And which perhaps might appeal to some customers.
Making products (and services) that only serve niche customers is nowadays a risky choice. I think.
Let’s see if this still exists in 3 ~ 4 years time.
I wonder what Synology is thinking about, what their aim is.
To simplify things?
To me it looks like that Synology is aiming for enterprise (full swing), and hopefully such pants are not too big for them. (and keep the braces handy, just in case)
I look forward to more in-depth information. But with my 20+ years and PT’s of data, the amount of backups I have lost can be counted on a few fingers of a hand…
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Synology appears to be forsaking the bread and butter users, the masses that made Synology what they are. In stead, they are courting the Enterprise market now, seeking the massive profits that come with that market sector.
Synology need to be careful here. The optics of losing interest in the home/prosumer/SMB market will come back to bite them if users feel abandoned and ignored.
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Data Protection!
Muahahahahaha hahahahahahaha! We’ll see how long until that “data protection” security is broken and / or circumvented.
Just another thing to sell to businesses.
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*Update* – Since I recorded and edited this video (both times!) a little more information has arisen about ActiveProtect and the DP series (regarding ActiveBackup, Pricing, and Scope). There will be a follow-up video on this one next week and it will be a very special video! In the meantime, you can watch the full summary video on the Synology 2024 event I made yesterday here – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC_gtEGRDJY
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Looks like a win-win product for both less tech-savvy users and their “don’t you work with computers?” relatives that otherwise would be called regularly with tech support issues.
Why Synology in 2024 still releases non-universal macOS software is beyond me. Especially since all of their desktop software offerings are not OS-“native” applications, but instead use software frameworks like Electron (BeeStation desktop app, at least the App Extension and the helper apps are ARM-native) or Qt (HyperBackup Explorer).
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Why didn’t you ever do a performance review of the OWC 8 SLOT M.2 PCIE RAID CARD?
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back in the day i tried setting up hyper backup from one synology to another but it was super broken due to both the source and destination shares being encrypted, have they sorted that out? have you tried backing up form one synology to another when both are encrypted? and i am referring to share folder encryption not volume
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SuperNASCompare’s Fortress of Solitude
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BSM + DSM = BDSM
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I hope they take some of the changes to the UI in BSM and put it in DSM 8. DSM looks a bit old by today’s standards of macOS and Windows 11 UIs. Be nice if they had a version of Video Station for BSM, people creating their own clouds with streaming services getting expensive is a growing market, but I guess you would just get a DSM system for that.
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Iām pretty sure that BSM is : Basic Storage Manager š
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And let’s not forget BDSM.
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Second! Love your content!!!! Haha. Thanks this is very interesting! I am still exploring what advantages having a ds423+ is
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First! Love your content!!!
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Any update on this?
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Power usage?
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Got on the phone with someone on WAN show tonight. NAS company is IX systems.
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Does casaOS support backup on OneDrive? Because f*****g synology never did
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Can you also add the electricity usage of these devices when in operation, as today electricity costs of running things is important.
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on kickstarter quad core option it say “This reward does not include disks or the quad M.2 SSD adapter.” and i cant find the optional add on about that quad M2 ssd adapter . does it mean only 10 core pro version have the quad nvme showed in the video ?
thank you
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I think you are heading down a deadend with your emphasize on the zimaOS and holding off on testing until the zimaOS is further along. NAS software is complex. It takes time, money, and expertise to develop. It is going to be impossible to spread the cost of developing a case, two motherboards, a backplane, two m.2 daughtercards and a reasonable set of software across the approximately 1000 units they have sold so far. If they had sold 10,000 units, the situation would be very different.
Anyone with experience with software and hardware development will come to the conclusion that they will run out of time and money after implementing 25-50% of their ‘goals as communicated by marketing.’ No time or money will be left for the complex parts of polishing, debugging, and optimization.
9 out of 10 people who use the hardware are going to end up using an existing NAS software package. Icewhale could have significantly multiplied their sales numbers if they had set reasonable goals by focusing on plug-and-play compatibility with TrueNAS scale, unraid, and possibly OMV.
Spending $120 for a zimaboard or zimablade is a whim for many people. Spending $500-$1000 on a NAS, plus another $1000 on drives, is an investment that requires research.
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What is that Asmedia chip??
Benchmarks would be nice to give us an idea of performance. Particularly interested in the NVME performance.
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I was hoping they were further along with this, especially on the hardware side. I wish they just did hardware and sent it out without worrying about software side.
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Would definitely want to swap out those rear fans, but I’m not sure what with. You were going to investigate options for that. My home office isn’t quiet though, especially with my aging Drobo running (hoping to retire that soon), so I’d probably be OK. PS – Plenty of EB slots still available for both versions.
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Im reading some pretty negative comments about security wholes and a lot of risky hardcoding. Any validity to these comments?
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Could you please measure power consumption? Thanks for this video!
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On their kickstarter it states that for raid 1 you need 3 disks.. are they doing something special ?
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I can’t quite get my head around why they wouldn’t get RAID implemented early. Surely they want people testing it and giving their feedback early. I certainly wouldn’t want to be an early adopter of a RAID implementation.
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You fuffled your words on the “Other ways to manage storage” bit š š I mean who was expecting the link to lead to OpenMediaVault page , certainly noy me and I doubt you ? !! LOL
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Can you expand on the other NVME next to the PCIE slot, it appears there is a 2nd one.
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I may have missed it while watching the video, but what are the speeds of the PCIE lanes for the N100?
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Higher bandwidth cable to the motherboard, but how much bandwidth ?
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The hardware looks very promising, the software is not that impressive. Yet.
I agree, RAID should be their top-priority but I gather they would already know that and would be working on that soonest.
Their hardware-changes (extra PCI slot, improved drive-cable etc) into a new MB, that are some solid moves.
From all the DIY’s, this is one of the most promising ones to me so far…
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Please please do a follow up on the U-NAS case por favor ????????
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As a backer, Iām so excited to see the base model has a second pci slot now.
Iād still like to see some changes to the case to allow for full sized (horizontal) pci card. Iād also like to see cable retention for the power cable so it doesnāt get unplugged so easily.
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Hmm… I can’t seem to find out if it’s only my youtube there does it, but on this video the audio and picture goes out of sync, anybody else with that problem ?
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Anyone know where you can pick up a case like it?
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According to the discord, raid is coming very soon.
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Is there open software that compares to synology dsm? Really their hardware and prices seem really out of parity these daysā¦ they are slow rolling hardware updates a lot it seems. Also Synologyās ios apps are good, so would have to replace them too.
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I really like these close ups in partial screen mode.
Good job
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I don’t know if this option needs to be “Truly” powerful. If the NAS allowed SMB, some form of parity, and an easy and secure way to connect to other NAS boxes that would be more than enough for the target customer and for those of us who want major power its still a great idea to run it as a VM or setup a dedicated secondary box running this just for critical data. This would be huge for those who want to self host Nextcloud and Bitwarden because it removes that fear of loosing really critical stuff due to a house fire.
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Glad that my pc has been set to communicate with wd ex2 (not extra) by LAN. All handphones can access ex2 by “network neighbourhood” app. Ex2 is a dea.d.c.hild by wd definition, but yesterday I put in a new toshiba n300 8tb hdd. Still work fine as a in house nas. Next year, hoping to change to ugreen nas machine 2024 model.
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already do the steps to Enable Local Access on your My Cloud Home, the local my cloud host name is created, but I still can’t access using the username and password I was created.. HOW??? PLEASE HELP
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I am almost 8 months i can’t access my Wd my cloud and i contacted them they sent me 3 more drives and even them non of them work. Now i believe i hacked too and all my data gone
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so, it is not worth going with the MY Cloud Home (6TB for Ā£149.99) ? should I get ds220+ instead (Ā£258 refurb +cost of the disk) ?
I would like to use it like a google drive for photos to send to clients + using for plex 4K and atmos -> Nvidia shield.
thanks
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I believe that WD is simply obliged to return the money to everyone for their products of such low quality and pay moral compensation. They make users suffer with their device if something happens to it. It is impossible to return access to the device to a simple user. You must have great knowledge. This is a big headache for the average user. I’m furious with WD. In my PC, I threw out all the HDD of this company. Never trust WD. Her devices are Prada Devil in beautiful packaging. I’ve already lost all my data twice and a lot of money. And data recovery cost 4 times more than the cost of the device itself.
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Emails are going out today to WD Store customers… personal data is also involved but they say it’s encrypted.
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Sorry but I’m not trusting my data to something basically built in someone’s shed. Happy to sit on the higher price / low risk side of the spectrum.
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Hope this happens but its going to take way more than 250K.
TrueNAS was nice but unnecessarily complicated. Unraid is just plain jankie, found myself crossing my fingers and hoping it rebooted successfully was too much so I bit the bullet and gave into Synology
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I liked unraid for its flexability to use any kind of hardware it docker and vm software. But I like dsm for its desktop backup software, back to Google cloud, its Web based desktop usability, and remote access.
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TLDR : Proper Storage is not cheap
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I would love sone NAS software that can allow multiple controllers access a ZFS pool at the same time, like DDN Intelliflash units.
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I’ll need ECC RAM support no matter what!
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To be honest this sounds like a joke to me. Really? A complete OS system? By two or so employees? With only 250.000? Dude I’m a web developer and a simple website can take up to 6 months to develop. An OS is maybe 1000x more complicated to do so. Maybe they should invest on the hardware, something like storaxa, they can definitely do it and with less headaches for them
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250k is a second tier dev salary
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Hours before his WAN show, nice! ????
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I’d like to be able to install this on my Storaxa NAS box – if the Storaxa project is successful and assuming the success of Linus’ investment.
I”ve always liked DSM, but I’m not a fan of Synology NAS hardware, (certainly not at their pricepoints) and I have longed for a similarly usable NAS OS for the DIY market.
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Personally I do t think that middle ground is possible while the desire is to provide the fully suite of services. DNS, DHCP, LDAP, mail servers, Web servers etc etc service do need a level of knowledge as to implementing it correctly.
That said, if “middle ground” means not offering such services then there are a lot of possibilities. That is, if the only target is to give a clean solution built around DIY hardware that offers file sharing, plex and say offside backup/replication (and the like) then yeahā¦ I hope they succeed.
But the moment you’re opening up your “devices” as something that is addressable from the wider internet the administer of that device *MUST* have a level of base k owledge beyond the “average” to be able to protect it.
Easy as DSM’s firewall is, exactly how many know how to effectively leverage and manage it??
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qnap devices are userfriendly if you dont care about getting hacked in 20 minutes š
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No way 250k, or even a million will be sufficient to develop a robust backend that makes front end friendly. Surely thereās other investors involved for this to be realistic. My estimates are 2mil for an alpha, another 2 mil to get beta out, maybe 3 mil toward polished version. The skills required are six-figure positions for atleast 5 seasoned developers. Those expenses donāt include possible licensing of network related IP
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I just want a Synology NAS with 4-8 bay options running SHR1-2 and a decent processor rather than the current trash (with no HD/RAM tie-ins). I’ll pay!
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LTT shared a video about their networking/server setup, they want 10Gbe everywhere with handful of 100Gbe joints,
they are moving onto Proxmox with most of the stuff, and using TrueNAS for storage,
seeing specs of upcoming ASUS Pro WS W790E-SAGE SE I guess it’s fairly clear what can we expect from close future “server” hardware, and something like 28 PCIe x4 NVMEs in one box can be one of them, so the software will have to be VERY scaleable in that regard
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Considering that Linus has lost his data, not once but twice. I don’t think I would trust his judgment here.
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Everyone wants TrueNAS capabilities with the usability of DSM.
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I’ll stick with Synology. I am paying for the peace of mind and the software features. I am glad they have Ryzen processors, 923+ is high on my list to replace the two two bay Synology NAS’s I have now. They will be the “cold storage” backups to the new NAS. Love what you do!
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I think ZFS is standard in linux word for storage. I heard that hardware raid is dead.
So question what they want to build platform on … on ZFS?
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The killer feature for QNAP/Synology is the ability to add IP cameras, there are very few alternatives to that. Many alternatives to file storage.
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Looking forward to my Storaxa arriving. In June, July, August, September, please arrive, October, Nov-PLEASE!
My wallet is empty of money, but my heart is full of hopes!
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maybe we should list what we want in the middle ground nas
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I understand that many in here like me got WD Home cloud for back up and to established a centralized storage system for our files. I also understand many chose this storage option instead of paying for cloud services.
However, the reality of back up and files safety remains in the ability to secure and back up your data in different locations in case something like this happens, or your place cath in fire or is burglarized.
That’s why I was using WD Clound in conjunction with a cloud service. Therefore when this happened I had a back of my WD files in my cloud service provider and was able to continue my work.
WD did reacted correctly by shutting down as soon as they find out to reduce the data that could be possibly stolen.
Many big corporations have gone through situations like this it’s the risk of today’s high speed and electronic communications advances.
I am confident WD will implement new safety measures to prevent or reduce the chances of this happening again.
NAS is a good storage option but it also subject to malfunction, damage or physical stole Always have that plan B.
However, this is also a learning experience for us to implement back up plans in the event this happens again.
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Iāve always been leery of data breaches of these big companies so I utilize the ability of my DS920+ to encrypt my backup to the cloud. I can sleep easy at night knowing even if someone did steal my files they canāt do anything with them.
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Truenas is still the best !
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Another failure of Western Digital. Canāt trust them with anything, wd is trying to scam and mislead their customers in anyway possible. Happy I stopped buying their products some time ago.
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Many years ago I owned a WD My Book EX3 with MyCloud and they had a major disruption way back then, and I jumped ship fast! WD is terrible at managing these issues and communicating. Really, quite terrible that this is still happening.
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I don’t see why they would pay the hackers. They’ll either share the data anyways or come back asking for more money in a week or two. The data’s out there and nothing they can do will change that fact.
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What happened with WD could have happened to any other company. It’s good they did a complete system shut down as soon as they learned about the breach.
In past such Incidents have happened with other companies as well, In 2014, Apple’s Cloud service iCloud was hacked, LinkedIn was hacked a couple of times and even Facebook. Not only this NASA and FBI servers have been hacked as well in the past.
Compared to those Incidents this incident is nothing. In tech and internet world there would always be such vulnerabilities, that no tech company can guarantee protection against.
I see that many viewers wrote that they’ll shift to another brand but unfortunately even they cannot guarantee protection against such Incidents.
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I got a 4TB Western Digital My Cloud Home as my first NAS several weeks ago. I quickly learned two things from it:
1) Having a NAS is amazing. I never want to be without one again.
2) I bought a crappy NAS.
Then the hack/outage came along and point #2 became even more true.
I ordered a Synology DS220j and man… I wish I had done that in the first place. I think I’m just gonna shuck the My Cloud Home and toss its HD into the Synology š
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I took advantage of the WD World Backup Day flash sale, and waiting for info on the 2 drives I ordered. Not urgent, but hope they show up someday.
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Best thing I do with my wd cloud mirror gen 1 is converting this device to be synology with dsm 6.Working perfectly in raid 1 for one year now.
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āI hate seagullsā !!! Love it
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lmao, how many times have this happened to WD nases? all the people i know avoid them
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Think about immutable backups as soon as possible. Backups are no good if they are not protected.
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Why does this smell like the makings of a class action suit if people have suffered unrecoverable loss due to WD’s failures in maintenance?
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I’ve had a MyCloud EX4100 for over 10 years now, so I had it set up nicely, with LAN access… not that useful when this happened while I was away from home! Like everyone else, I wondered what the hell happened and cursed at WD . Over the years, they have been making decision I did not personally like the media previews on OS5 that got my NAS rattling like mad for 4 months straight! I had started watching loads of videos on your channel in the search of my next NAS. This was the deciding factor. Just bought a TVS-h874. Hopefully I’m set for the next 10 years. So, with a much lighter bank account and a big smile, I’d like to say thanks for all the advice! Your videos (and website) are brilliant Keep up the good work :^)
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And the government wants to do digital ID? I don’t think so
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I hate seagulls
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TrueNAS I am so happy to use it
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I have a RMA to present and i can’t, so i have a couple of broken disks i cannot claim guarantee over them
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VERMIN is the right word. At least they know what they are. Self-awareness is already a good indication of some intelligence.
The first rule of engagement with terrorist/criminals is: NO NEGOTIATION!
I have a WD EX4100 NAS and I love it. When they moved to My CloudOS 5 and they demanded UPnP to be active for the NAS to be accessible online… that’s the moment I switched off the CLOUD connectivuty.
UPnP is very easy to use but a disaster waiting to happen… and it just happened… mixed with some other bad connectivity issues… UPnP demand was just an indicator (to me) of the big screw up they were getting themselves into.
People need to understand that EVERYTHING that’s accessible online by you… can also be accessed by anyone else willing to spend the time and money to access it as well. NOTHING IS SAFE online!!!
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And I was thinking of getting one of these. Good thing I went with synology instead????
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Purchased a drive on the 1st. Still haven’t gotten any information other than an email on the 4th. Fortunately I used a rarely used cc, so not too worried if it gets compromised.
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Almost like WAN dependency of any kind is unacceptable… Who would have thought
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Um, if the hackers have WD’s code signing keys as you mention, doesn’t that mean they can potentially install malware in any of WD’s devices? Sounds like people will need a LOT more clarity on that point.
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I was affected by this data breach and was affected by the previous zero day issue with the older MyCloud NAS. At this point I have lost faith with WD.
The fact of their lack of communication with their customers and creating a NAS that requires online server authentication, really has put a sour taste in my mouth.
After receiving no information from WD, I decided to buy a Synology DS218play. May not be the DS220+, but it works, and does not need a Western Digital server to allow me to access my files.
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I assumed my WD device was bricked and I’m awaiting a DS220+ as a step up replacement. Having listened to this I plugged it back in and it’s working again. Why didn’t they contact us? Now I’ve got to decide whether to keep the DS220 or return to the old WD which was fine for my needs, just.
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Glad to see you have fixed that Synology NAS stack(the 2 bay ones, DS220+ and DS220j), my OCD always kicked in when I saw it was tilted a bit.
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Exactly why I keep my data locally! Not paying monthly for the same (or worse) risks.????
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It was very sad that they did not immediately email their clients to notify us of the breach. My drive was set up on a LAN and was somewhat isolated. I was double confused at the onset since when I lost connectivity to the WD server, we also experienced a severe electrical storm that took out my NAS. While trying to access my drive through the LAN and then through their web service that had finally been taken down the same day, I was completely at sea as to what was happening. I finally received an email yesterday that services had been restored. That is inexcusably poor customer service and protection.
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3:27 #ihateseagulls ????
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If I understand these WD NAS’s correctly, I’m stunned that the default setup to reach the NAS that’s sitting on a shelf besides me is via a relay at the WD facilities. In what world does that make sense ?
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I’m looking to replace my WD MyCloud EX2 Ultra NAS. I’m seriously looking at building my own NAS and use TrueNAS.
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seagulls ftw.
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I want to see some NAS Compares merchandise. My first purchase would be a mug or T-shirt emblazened with: I Hate Seaguls!
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Love your videos and always have a laugh when you mention the seagulls. But you know a simple noise cancelling microphone can solve that problem. My tip for the day.
As for WD. I’ll stick with my Synology. Just bought a DS923+ to take over from my trusty DS415play after watching your videos. I do use it as a streaming server but I figured I don’t need transcoding. I tend to use the Handbrake application occasionally to reduce file size and increase playability if needed, but watch most of my videos on a dedicated, LAN connected media PC connected to my TV.
Keep up the awesome work!
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I was not impacted but this it the exact reason why I will never buy ANY cloud-only equipment. No matter whether that is a simple ring doorbell or a backup system.
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Like many others, I was infuriated by WD locking me out of my data without warning or explanation. I see that many other people were also driven to find new NAS solution and to your channel. I am now a happy new owner of Asustor Lockestor which I bought after watching many of your videos.
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its the 14th and remote access still has the same error code.
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I was impacted by this WD incident. I was not happy with the lack of communication by them that I started looking for alternatives, which led me to your channel. After watching some of your video’s I bought my own TerraMaster NAS system. I had all my files backed up on 2 other devices so I was able to completely setup my new NAS. Thanks to your videos I felt comfortable in being able to setup the NAS. I hesitated before on getting a NAS but now I’m glad I did. Thank you for help.
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After a long week with no indication of the prospect of any solution being offered, I decided to rip the disk out of the device. The data was safe and the disk has now been re-purposed. Ironically, six hours after I did this WD systems went back on-line, but I don’t really care.
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It’s not exactly transparency with your customers when the details only come to light from the hackers contacting a media outlet. I wonder just how long WD was prepared to keep their customers in the dark or if they actually contacted the various national regulators of such a significant breach?
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I’ve been stressed, for over 10 days, haven’t heard anything from WD, only got in touch with my “nas” yesterday. I have now bought a Synology DS220j. I know it’s a cheap version, but that’s what I can afford to pay.
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I was impacted. I was lucky, I’d setup LAN access months before the hack so could still access my data.
It did cause me a rethink my life choices and I now have a Synology DS220j and enjoying climbing the learning curve, which has been greatly facilitated by your channel.
Cheers Dude
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It does take a while to investigate an exploit and then develop, test and issue a patch. Shutting a service until they knew what was going on was the right call. A lot of work will have gone into WD getting this exploit fixed. It’s a lot better than Google or OKTA who deliberately hid breaches and left customers exposed for months.
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